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User talk:Turianfiend
Hi, welcome to Mass Effect Wiki! Thanks for your edit to the File:Turian female 001.jpg page. Be sure to check out our Style Guide and Community Guidelines to help you get started, and please leave a message on my talk page if I can help with anything! -- SpartHawg948 (Talk) 17:03, 31 January 2011 Two Things Please note that it is currently speculation that the unusual turian seen in Evolution is a female. There have been more than a few discussions on this, which you are free to participate in, but there is not enough concrete proof to say for certain that the turian Lt. is female. There are a lot of other reasonable solutions and until it is cleared up, given we have seen no female turians at this point, it is speculation. Also note that you are edit warring, which is a bannable offense. If this continues further action will be taken. Again there are places where this has been discussed, and that is the proper forum for this, not edit warring which will lead to a ban if it continues. Lancer1289 17:41, January 31, 2011 (UTC) Female Turian True in Mass Effect: Evolution there isn't a giant indicator arrow that points to certain Lt Abrudas in the book and state "Female Turian" It does however have a word bubble that states "God even the women look like him." as they are hand cuffing the only different looking Turian. (which by the same notion you used to deduce that the turian is in the picture is the Lt.) Turianfiend 18:07, January 31, 2011 (UTC)Turianfiend :And that is subject to interpretation given what can go on during war time, and there are plenty of other reasonable explanations, such as a subspecies of turian, note that race names are not capitalized in the ME universe. Also note that speculation, which is what your last edit was, is not allowed in articles under any circumstances. Maybe this will be resolved in a few weeks with issue #2, but right now it is still speculation. Lancer1289 18:15, January 31, 2011 (UTC) Here is what is stated under the speculation: Speculation is permitted in articles under the following circumstances: ■It is clearly marked as being speculation, either under a “speculation” heading or with the sentence “some speculate that—” at the beginning of the paragraph. I made sure the picture contained a sentence with 'speculation' in it. and yes, I realize that you don't capitalize race names. My point is Jack from the comic book is the Illusive man, however he isn't wearing a name tag that states he is the Illusive man, he just so happens to have the same cybernetic eyes that the Illusive man does, and is in a book that features the rise of the Illusive Man. I used deductive reasoning to figure that out. And using Occam's Razor, we can see that this is a way to introduce a female turian, with out all of the hand holding verification that you wish. It is quite a stretch to believe that the pictured turian is part of a subspecies, I thought it was in fact a juvenile, but as I read on, I found out that nope, it was a female. Turianfiend 18:27, January 31, 2011 (UTC)Turianfiend :Yeah that needs to be changed given that we don't allow any speculation and given the nature of this issue, anything like that is as speculative as it can come and subjective to personal opinions. We removed a whole section on speculation from an article a while ago. Also the simplest solution isn't always the right or best solution, sometimes things are complicated, and ME has proven that in the past. Using deductive reasoning has lead to huge flame wars and subjective opinions in the past and that deductive reason has always been one person saying "I'm right and you are wrong". I'm just repeating what has happened in the past, nothing more. Maybe said turian is female, maybe not, but given other situations, and we do know there is a offshoot/subspecies of the salarians, the Lystheni, it is a reasonable solution. :In addition, Jack will probably be explained later, that is still speculation at this point. It is most likely the right answer, but it is still speculation. Lancer1289 18:41, January 31, 2011 (UTC) True enough, I don't want to get into a "I'm right and everyone else is stupid" arguement, though at this point it seems moot. I do doubt that further issues of Evolution will more blatanly state the sex of said turian. I can understand wanting to limit speculation, since people only want to look up canon things, and here comes the but. I just wanted to show a contrast picture of a turian, since it looks different, but more importatly because it may be a female, and since as far as we know all aliens have been male (because of the ease of recycling wire frame models) save for the non-gendered asari. And putting it up on the turian page seemed to be the best place to put it. I know that putting up that picture will give everyone a better view of the growing universe that is ME, and that is what this site is about, letting everyone get the most out of their ME experience. So that is what I'm going to do. I would appreciate it if you left said picture up. And if what you say is true about the wide held view of speculation, someone should change that, or inform people. Turianfiend 19:25, January 31, 2011 (UTC)Turianfiend :(edit conflict)Except that it is speculation given the situation, it isn't fully explained and it is speculuation, even if it is marked as such. The image is subjective and anyone reading the comic can look at it themselves, but the problem is that it is speculation no matter which way it is cut. I could also say that it is a subspecis and change the caption to refect that. But that is also speculation. Giving everyine a better view is a stetch given the subjective nature of the image, and since it is speculaiton, it will be removed. Lancer1289 19:34, January 31, 2011 (UTC) Thank you for leaving the picture intact, and I approve of your change to the picture caption. My final arguement for why I think it is a female is as follows. You have a human in the Mass Effect Universe who is making a statement about a turian regarding her sex. If the same human made the same comment about anything else, example being "Hey that's an asari crusier" as he points to a cruiser in the distance. By your standards no one could post that because he could be mistaken. You could claim that it is an asteroid. The fact that you are calling into account the intellegence and knowledge of characters who exist in a universe, and interact with said thing on a day to day basis, and claime that they don't know what said object is, is pretty out there. I almost don't even want to write this part, but I will anyways. It is one thing to say you know more about certain characters (ex Shepard, or any of his team) than the average citizen, because you have a more intimate dealing with them while you play the game. But to say you have a better understanding than an in-game character about average everyday objects such as species, their sex, etc is impossible. Using this notion, nothing could be written down on the wiki except what is stated verbatim in the codex. Because even in game we are seeing the universe through the lens of Shepards vision, so who is to say, we could be mistaken. Turianfiend 20:28, January 31, 2011 (UTC)Turianfiend :No not really. We have seen instances in the games where things have not only be wrong, but blatantly wrong at that. There are a lot of inconsistencies in the games, books, and comics that seem to contradict each other, especially with dialogue. So who is wrong there? Your example makes really no sense as by your logic, everything is wrong, which isn't the case. As for us saying we have a "better understanding than an in-game character about average everyday objects such as species", is stretching it at best. There are things we have seen in dialogue especially, but other places as well, where things were demonstratability wrong by other things. The characters could also be interpreting things as they come along, or may not even know something which we do, so who is wrong there? A character who is demonstratability wrong by other things, or us who can demonstrate that they are incorrect. By your logic, we are incorrect and even though we can demonstrate that they are incorrect, we are wrong. That is really some strange logic. Lancer1289 20:44, January 31, 2011 (UTC) Yep, you see my point you are arguments are more philosophical than practical. No one can prove to a certainty that anything is real. But apparently somethings are more real than others, which is why you let those things remain posted. And yes, anytime you create a world there are opportunities to slip up and write things that contridict. Hey in the real world people say things that contradict all the time. But here is the fact. You claim that the character Ben is wrong when he says that the turian is a female (though actually you are claiming something else entirely solely to be difficult/play devil's advocate). I would bet dollars to doughnuts that even if another turian says that Abrudas is my wife, you would make a statement about homosexual marriages. And that is my point you view everything said by anyone with the idea that they are incorrect. An example would be Vigil, the players know about Reapers, and what the Protheans did because of Vigil. But the rest of the Universe doesn't. So is Shepard crazy? Because no one can back what he is saying. We know he is right, because otherwise it really wouldn't be much of a game (but are we really, maybe this whole thing is just like St Elsewhere and we would never know). And that is what makes it so fun, because in real life would a government listen to what would sound like crazy talk coming from a relatively insignificant being ... no. But that isn't the wiki. The turain who gets captured is called a general by the Illusive man, but is he. No turian says hey general Desolas, and he doesn't say 'Ha! it is me general Desolas' but that is who he is. Because that is his character, and for the real truth of the matter it is such a waste of time and effort for someone to create that many fake names/alias for characters to have then discard. This isn't a murder mystery this is a science fiction space opera. Occam's Razor applies here. :You know there is no need for comments like, "says that Abrudas is my wife, you would make a statement about homosexual marriages" as that is completely uncalled for. By your comment, I can assume that you are female then, given that statement, which you are free to correct me on if I did get it wrong. And no you would be wrong in that instance as those comments are both unnecessary and completely uncalled for. I do not think everything is incorrect, in fact there are plenty of people who add correct information, yet strangely I don't revert their edits. :I am not doing this to be difficult or play devil's advocate, right now have a human, not a turian, saying it is a female, which could be a lot of things. The example of Desolas is something I'm scratching my head at because I never contest that point and it makes no sense in the context it was used. Occam's Razor doesn’t always apply because it is often misused, misinterpreted, subject to bias and interpretation, and it not always the best solution. Simple, or the one with the least amount of problems is not always the best or correct solution. Lancer1289 21:44, January 31, 2011 (UTC) Your Galaxy Map Effing gorgeous. I just want to say that I appreciated your work and feel lucky to have seen it before the soulless jerks had a chance to delete it. If you have a deviantart account you should plug it. Kalaong 01:27, February 1, 2011 (UTC)